Ensure That Your White Tie Ensemble is Exceptional
White Tie is the most formal dress code that exists in menswear (setting aside specific royal, ceremonial, or military attire). Therefore, on the special occasions when you are invited to wear it, you want to ensure that you get every detail exactly right. The fact of the matter is, there are many conventions and rules associated with White Tie, and making a mistake with even one of them can be glaringly obvious.
Fortunately, this guide will highlight the aspects of White Tie that are often done incorrectly so that you can avoid making these mistakes. It will also share the simple ways that you can elevate your White Tie ensembles so that you appear truly superlative.
“Tailored to fit, ‘White Tie’ can give any man a special dignity and distinction as do no other clothes.”
From The Complete Book of Etiquette
The Met Gala has become infamous for the lax ways that many of the gentlemen attendees wear their White Tie ensembles. With the information contained in this guide, you can feel secure in knowing that you will never make similar errors.
Scope these Hollywood fashions, then and now!
The Essential Elements of White Tie
What Makes a True White Tie Ensemble
For a full examination of what White Tie is, its history, when you will be expected to wear it, and how to wear it perfectly, please review our White Tie Guide. For the purposes of this article, we will merely provide an overview of the essential elements of a White Tie Tie.
The Basic Garments and Accessories of White Tie
- Evening Tailcoat, featuring a horizontal cutaway and two long, tapering tails.
- Evening Trousers, featuring, ideally, a high-rise waist and double galon satin stripe.
- White Evening Waistcoat, made of Marcella cotton pique cut single or double-breasted.
- Stiff Front Evening Shirt, with starched front, single cuffs, and detachable winged collar.
- White Formal Evening Bow Tie, traditionally made from Marcella cotton pique.
Download our ebook for even more White Tie knowledge!
The “Don’ts” of White Tie
Avoid These Basic White Tie Mistakes
We have highlighted the following mistakes to emphasize how easy it can be to get White Tie wrong. In many cases, we have been guilty of these errors ourselves, so do not feel bad if you have, too: it just means that you are growing and developing in your mastery of White Tie!
Learn these 50 style mistakes and how to avoid them!
1. Don’t Wear Slippers Instead of Opera Pumps
White Tie traditionally calls for opera pump shoes, also referred to as court shoes. While opera pumps resemble slippers because they are both slip-on shoes, they are in fact different: opera pumps have a much longer cutout in the vamp, which elegantly puts your fine silk evening socks on full display. Slippers, on the other hand, have a smaller cutaway and can feature decorative elements on the vamp that are incongruous with White Tie formality.
“If anybody can tell a fellow just when to wear a black tie with evening clothes and when not to, it’s Larry Lefferts. And on the question of pumps versus patent-leather Oxfords his authority had never been disputed.
From The Age of Innocence by Edith Wharton
Master formal footwear!
2. Don’t Wear an Obviously Fake Boutonniere
Because it can be difficult to source a genuine boutonniere from a reputable florist, an artificial boutonniere is often an excellent choice for adding a splash of color to your jacket front. An obviously fake boutonniere, however, either because it is excessively exuberant or clearly ersatz, becomes a distraction that mars the look of your ensemble. Therefore, if you are going to wear a boutonniere, either employ the genuine article or seek out a reputable maker who can produce artificial flowers that look like the real thing.
Shop the finest of
Boutonnieres
Fort Belvedere provides the best boutonnieres. Crafted out of delicate silk, each and every boutonniere from Fort Belvedere is made by hand by skilled German craftsmen. Available in a wide range of species, these elegant lapel flowers will put the perfect finishing touch on your White Tie ensemble, and even though they look so real, they will never wilt!
3. Don’t Wear a Necktie
Neckties are never intended to be worn with formal evening attire, whether it is Black or White Tie. The “white tie” in “White Tie” explicitly refers to a bow tie, not a necktie, even if it happens to be white. Therefore, never wear a necktie of any color with a White Tie ensemble.
4. Don’t Skip the Bow Tie
Obviously, a White Tie ensemble requires a “white tie.” Do not attempt to eschew neckwear. The bulk of the bow tie is necessary to create a visual bridge between your shirtfront and the shoulders of the jacket to your face, drawing the eye upwards.
Find the best formal bow ties from Fort Belvedere!
Don’t Wear the Wrong Type of Jacket
5. Don't Wear a Day Suit Jacket
Day suits are cut in a completely different way from tailcoats and are not an acceptable substitute for a genuine evening tailcoat. Do not attempt to wear a conventional suit jacket with your White Tie ensemble: the proportions will simply be off.
6. Don't Wear a Tuxedo Jacket
While the term “tuxedo” is sometimes erroneously applied to morning coats, evening tailcoats, and Black Tie dinner jackets, the term only properly refers to the latter. A tuxedo jacket, also known as a dinner jacket, is intended to be worn with Black Tie, not White Tie, and just like with a day suit jacket, wearing a tuxedo jacket with a White Tie ensemble will spoil the lines of the ensemble.
7. Don't Wear a Cream or White Dinner Jacket
Off-white, cream, and white dinner jackets are a warm-weather alternative to the Black Tie dinner jacket. They are not intended to be worn with White Tie, even if they do happen to be white.
8. Don't Wear a Morning Coat
While a morning coat is a tailcoat, it is a different type of tailcoat from an evening tailcoat. The morning coat has an oblique cutaway, rather than a horizontal one, and the tails differ in appearance from those of an evening tailcoat. Because of these details, the morning coat is simply too substantial to be worn in place of the more delicate evening tailcoat.
The Different Tailcoat Cuts
“I went and dressed sadly. It will show you pretty well how pipped I was when I tell you that I near as a toucher put on a white tie with a dinner-jacket.”
From My Man Jeeves by P.G. Wodehouse
9. Don’t Wear Notched Lapels
Notched lapels are a traditional feature of day business suits, and while they are sometimes featured on some modern tailcoats, they are not appropriate to the solemnity and decorum of a White Tie occasion. Instead, formal evening tailcoats ought to have peaked lapels.
10. Don’t Wear a Cummerbund
A cummerbund is a waist covering that is worn with Black Tie. While White Tie also requires a waist covering, a white formal evening waistcoat is worn to this end. A cummerbund is, therefore, both inappropriate and superfluous.
Learn the history of the cummerbund!
11. Don’t Wear Spats
While spats are a vintage feature of daytime formal attire, such as morning wear or a stroller suit, they should not be worn with White Tie. Spats originated as decorative elements that protected the shoes and socks, and because White Tie events do not include excursions outdoors, spats serve no purpose and will appear affected.
12. Don’t Wear a Black Shirt
In an effort to create a monochromatic look, black evening shirts are sometimes worn to match the black of formal evening jackets. The result, however, is a visual mess that muddies all of the details of your midsection. Evening shirts are white precisely so as to help emphasize all of the individual elements of your White Tie attire.
Is black the most overrated color in menswear?
13. Don’t Wear Prominent Designer Names or Logos
Classic Style rarely has recourse to trumpet the designer of clothes through obvious labels, logos, or names, and in the refined setting of White Tie, doing so is even more tacky. An essential element of formal attire is the uniformity it creates among gentleman attendees, and glaring branding is not consummate with this notion.
Why did men start wearing
Logos?
Prominent branding on clothing was largely eschewed during the Golden Age of Menswear, but now it seems like every garment is branded! When did logos become such a noticeable part of fashion? Find out!
14. Don’t Wear a Wristwatch
Traditionally, no kind of watch could be worn with formal attire, whether White Tie or Black Tie. Following World War II, it has become increasingly common for dress wristwatches to be worn with Black Tie ensembles, but they are not acceptable with White Tie ensembles: the bulk of the face and band spoils the tapered effect of the single cuffs and cufflinks on the shirt.
15. Don’t Wear a Studless Shirt (or a Turndown Collar)
A critical feature of the formal evening dress shirt is its ability to take studs, unique pieces of decorative jewelry that function like buttons. These studs are critical elements for creating visual interest in your chest area, and plain buttons are not an acceptable substitute.
Timelessly Classic Shirt Studs from Fort Belvedere
Platinum Monkeys Fist Shirt Studs
Rose Gold Monkeys Fist Shirt Studs
Yellow Gold Monkeys Fist Shirt Studs
Another type of stud is that which holds a detachable collar in place–traditional White Tie shirts feature a detachable wing collar affixed to the shirt with studs. While it is increasingly accepted today for White Tie shirts to feature an attached collar (as most modern dress shirts do), assuming its other details are correct, detachable collars are still the most elegant choice.
Whether detachable or not, a White Tie shirt should always feature a wing collar, and not the turndown style featured on some Black Tie shirts and standard day dress shirts.
Learn to distinguish dress shirts!
16. Don’t Show Excessive Shirtfront or Waistcoat Tabs
To help keep all of its fine details appearing as pristine as possible, the White Tie ensemble features a variety of buttons, tabs, and bands to hold everything in place. These features, however, should remain hidden so that everything appears to be elegantly arranged naturally. Therefore, make sure that the tabs that hold your waistcoat and the starched front of your evening shirt in place are hidden from view by securing them to the inside button on your formal evening trousers.
17. Don’t Wear an Overly Long Waistcoat
White Tie ensembles require an exceptionally cut evening waistcoat considerably more abbreviated than a day waistcoat. Day waistcoats should never be worn with White Tie. However, even formal evening waistcoats can sometimes be too long compared to the rest of the ensemble. Due to the low rise typical of modern trousers, waistcoats are cut longer to cover the waistband. This additional length, however, causes the waistcoat to be slighter longer than the tailcoat, creating an odd outline effect as the white waistcoat peeks out behind the cutaway of the black jacket. Depending on your build and proportions, this particular issue can be challenging to solve and may require the creation of a made-to-measure or bespoke garment.
FAQ
Is White Tie different from Black Tie?
Yes, it is. Black and White Tie are both formal evening dress codes, but White Tie is more formal. Black Tie consists of a dinner jacket ensemble, traditionally referred to as a tuxedo or “smoking” ensemble, while White Tie refers to an evening tailcoat ensemble. As you might expect, the former is also worn with a formal black bow tie, and the latter with a formal white bow tie.
Is a morning tailcoat the same thing as an evening tailcoat?
No, it is not. A morning tailcoat is obliquely cut to the body and features broader tails. It can be made from dark gray or black fabric. An evening tailcoat has a horizontal cutout and longer tails, often referred to as swallowtails. Conventionally, it can only be made from black or midnight blue fabric.
Does “formal attire” mean the same thing as White Tie?
Formal attire refers to any one of several formal dress codes. Historically, “formal evening attire” always indicated White Tie, while “formal day attire” always indicated morning dress. Nowadays, “formal attire” also refers to Black Tie, which is an evening dress code less formal than White Tie, but still considered formal attire. Furthermore, in casual society, the term “formal attire” is a colloquial reference to simply “dressing up,” and could therefore entail an ensemble as casual as a simple day suit.
What distinguishes a day waistcoat from a formal evening waistcoat?
A day waistcoat covers most of the midsection, with a relatively high buttoning point and a full back. A formal evening waistcoat has a much lower button point that exposes considerably more of the shirt front. Its hem is also cut somewhat higher, and it is backless to aid air circulation for personal cooling.
What makes a shirt a formal evening shirt?
A formal evening shirt is always white, usually made from cotton or linen in a broadcloth or voile weave. It takes a detachable collar, usually a wing collar. It has a bib front usually made of marcella pique that is heavily starched, as is the collar. The cuffs are also starched, and they consist of a single layer of fabric attached with a cufflink: French cuffs feature a doubled layer of fabric and are not typical of formal evening shirts. The shirt is closed with studs, which function like cufflinks, but are positioned along the shirt front in lieu of buttons. Traditionally, evening shirts should take one, two, or three studs.
What does “full fig” mean?
This idiomatic expression indicates that one is fully and completely dressed in a smart and proper way; its likely origins are as a truncation of the expression “to be dressed in full figure.” The term “full fig” is sometimes employed, along with “full dress,” to refer to dressing in White Tie, as this dress code is the epitome, or full figure, of formality in attire.
When is the White Tie dress code employed?
The White Tie dress code is extremely rare in the modern world. It is most often associated with events of the highest pomp and dignity, including royal occasions, such as coronations, the apex of cultural events, like the Vienna Opera Ball, or rarefied social gatherings and stately dinners, such as society weddings or state receptions. Some gala events, such as the Metropolitan Museum of Art’s annual Met Ball and the Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation Annual Dinner, also feature a White Tie dress code.
The “Do’s” of White Tie
Follow These Steps to Achieve a Remarkable White Tie Look
Having covered what to avoid when wearing White Tie, let us conclude on a positive note by highlighting ways that you can make your White Tie ensemble truly spectacular.
1. Do Wear a Quality-Made White Bow Tie
As a hallmark of the White Tie dress code, you should ensure that your white bow tie is of the finest quality. It should be made of the best materials: cotton pique is the most common contemporary fabric, but white silk can also be used. The bow tie should also be sized to your neck, as clunky straps and adjusters spoil the lines of White Tie. Ideally, the bows of the bow tie should also reflect the dimensions of your face: doing so will prevent your head from appearing out of proportion with the bow tie. For an especially neat and trim appearance, consider wearing a single-ended bow tie.
The Finest Formal White Bow Ties from Fort Belvedere
A Timeless Classic
Butterfly White Tie in Marcella Pique
Proportioned To You
Small Marcella Pique White Bow Tie
Unique Styling Feature
Single-Ended Marcella Pique White Bow Tie
2. Do Wear An Evening Waistcoat
Because it is situated near the midsection, the eye is naturally drawn to your formal evening waistcoat, and so it behooves you to seek out an exceptional iteration of this refined garment. Be sure that your waistcoat is cut sufficiently deep to adequately display your shirtfront, and attempt, if possible, to acquire one that will not peak out under the cutaway of your tailcoat.
Learn the hallmarks of a proper evening waistcoat!
“…and just then he saw two young men of fashionable cut approaching. There was a familiar air about their overcoats and the way their smart silk mufflers were folded over their white ties; and he wondered how youths of their quality happened to be dining out so early.”
From The Age of Innocence by Edith Wharton
2. Do Wear Formal Evening Outerwear
When journeying to and from a White Tie event, especially if it is cold, the proper outerwear will keep you warm and your clothes protected, all without spoiling the elegant formality of the occasion. In a pinch, a black paletot is an excellent substitute for a genuine evening overcoat, but of course, nothing compares to the real thing. For an even more vintage look, consider a formal evening cape with contrast lining for a truly spectacular effect.
Raphael’s gorgeous vintage
Overcoat
One of Raphael’s most treasured garments is a genuine vintage formal evening coat that he acquired secondhand: it is completely silk-lined with button fly and peaked silk-faced lapels. Overcoats of this quality, cut according to formal evening conventions, are almost impossible to find nowadays, so of course Raphael is very glad to own this one!
3. Do Show A Little Cuff
The interplay between the white of the dress shirt and the black of the tailcoat is one of the most striking features of White Tie. Emphasize this element by tastefully highlighting this contrast wherever possible, including by ensuring that some of your shirt cuff is visible at all times through your jacket sleeve. Traditionally, one-quarter to one-half of an inch is exposed, but because formal evening dress shirts have a higher collar than other shirts, it is possible to show off slightly more of your cuff to create a balanced appearance.
4. Do Wear a Pocket Watch
While timepieces were traditionally not worn with White Tie, since World War I, it has become acceptable to add a pocket watch to your ensemble. The addition of a fine chain glittering across your waistcoat can add a unique touch and unexpected visual interest. For even further refinement, consider affixing your pocket watch with a chatelaine, an elegant fabric fob that depends from your waistcoat and instantly adds vintage charm.
What is a
Chatelaine?
A chatelaine is a short fob made of metal or fabric that hangs from the belt, waistcoat, or trouser band. Originally, this device was worn to hold useful items like keys, but eventually, it was adapted to hold a pocketwatch. In the first half of the 20th century, many men were chatelaines and today they are a recognized as a rare and elegant vintage accessory.
You can set your watch to our Pocket Watch Primer!
5. Do Wear White Tie Accessories
When so much of a White Tie ensemble is fixed by rules and conventions, you should express yourself creatively in the few avenues remaining to you. This is best done with White Tie accessories. A vibrant boutonniere is an easy way to add unexpected color; classic varieties include red or white carnations or roses, but many flower types are acceptable. Fine studs create lustrous visual interest at your midsection, as do silver, gold, or platinum cufflinks at your wrists. A silk top hat or formal evening gloves were once de rigeur White Tie accessories, but now, you will always stand out as a man of rare taste by choosing to wear them.
The Finest White Tie Accessories from Fort Belvedere
6. Do Wear Patent Leather Shoes
While opera pumps were traditionally the only shoes that could be worn with White Tie, it is now acceptable to wear either wholecut or plain capless oxfords; derbies are also acceptable in some regions of Europe. Patent leather iterations of these shoes will look especially pleasing and emphasize the formal nature of the occasion with their bright, shiny appearance.
Dress Up Your Formal Evening Shoes with Formal Evening Shoelaces
Luxurious Velvet Shoelaces
Decadent Satin Shoelaces
Rare Barathea Shoelaces
7. Do Wear Over-The-Calf Silk Evening Socks
White Tie requires refined elegance from your head to your feet, and few things are more inelegant than puddling socks that won’t stay up. Therefore, make sure that you wear over-the-calf socks, which stay in place because they sit at a natural flexion point of the leg. Furthermore, these socks should be in sheer black silk to match the formality of the occasion: cotton and wool socks are associated with daywear.
Learn the secret to keeping any socks up all night long!
“With an evening coat and a white tie, as you told me once, anybody, even a stockbroker, can gain a reputation for being civilized.”
From The Picture of Dorian Grey by Oscar Wilde
8. Do Wear White Tie with Confidence
No matter how properly you wear your White Tie ensemble, it will never look exactly right unless you wear it with confidence. Fortunately, with the advice that you have learned in this guide, you can be sure that every aspect of your ensemble is correct, and you can, therefore, wear it with total pride, secure in the knowledge that you look as elegant and dapper as possible.
If White Tie is so great, why did men stop wearing it?
Conclusion
Warned by our “don’ts” and informed by our “dos,” you now know what to avoid and what to emulate when wearing White Tie. This elegant dress code is relatively rare today, but on those few happy occasions when you receive an invitation for a gathering associated with this lofty dress code, you can rest assured that you are fully prepared!
Let us know in the comments, what are your “dos and don’ts” for White Tie?
It saddens me that men don’t understand how to wear white tie. I am in white tie several times a month and horrified as to what I see.
Good time for you Ladies and Gentlemen and รพank you all for reading my reply.
Firลฟt of all sorry for my bad engliลฟh.
รere is some รพings i would like to challenge, firลฟt, all รฐis rules are made during Edward was a king, so if We will look for whole hiลฟtory of White Tie we will find รฐat, ลฟlippers are not good-looking wiรฐ Tailcoat but รฐere ara also elegant and ariลฟtocratic court-ลฟhoes, luลฟh and pompous ball-ลฟhoes and cute opera-ลฟhoes, รฐat all made to be worn wiรฐ White-coat or Court-coat or wiรฐ Frock coat.
What can i tell you about neck-tie, i don’t like รฐem neiรฐer, because รฐere are men’s ลฟhawls and scarves, bow-ties, ascots, ribbons.
If we will look for Spaniลฟh’s “Majos” or French’s “Incroyables” (boรพ are origin of White Tie we know) we will find รฐat cummerbund (not modern ลฟtyle but like scarf) is acceลฟsory you muลฟt wear on very important event.
About waiลฟtcoats i can tell you รฐat it can be high as you wiลฟh, but not lower than your wriลฟt when your hands are on hipsโฆ
I รพink we muลฟt make our “modernized” white-tie or similar wearing.
Consider my hat doffed at you, sir.
Thank you Thomas.
In some cases shown in those pictures the men brought a wrong accessory to the ball. Some of the women were looking like a tramp instead of a lady. Like the girl in the golden underwear.
It’s a shame that the Americans are easily discernible by their ill-fitting clothes and poor accoutrements. Benedict Cumberbatch is a welcome contrast. Even Tom Ford, unfortunately, looks poorly turned out.
One thing the author points out that is incorrect is that it is ok to wear pocket watches. White tie occasions are meant to be occasions of leisure. It is rude, to both the host, and to people’s sensibilities, to have a watch on display. The implication is you’ll be checking it, impatiently waiting to move on. Therefore, I would think, if you must wear a watch (or are particularly bored and want to know when you can leave) a discreet white gold wrist watch with a black strap might stay more hidden than anything else. Remember, no yellow gold after 5pm!
I suggest, you read the article again, because what you say about me is incorrect ;).
1. I say, it used to be not ok to have watches at all – so we agree on that.
2. I say, pocket watched were accepted, wristwatches are
Any citations? Clearly there is disagreement over time pieces.
I do stand corrected!
It is most interesting, though, how much variation in conduct exists today. Where once the rules of men’s wear, formal and informal, were very rigid, today it seems that almost anything goes.
I would feel uncomfortable wearing a pocket watch with white tie, but I do concede that it must be a commonly accepted convention. One thing is certain, however, that foot long chain that Mr. Depp has dangling from his coat is a little over the top!
The gentleman in the forbidden dinner jacket is actor Chiwetel Ejiofor, OBE, so I guess not all the Brits got the same info. But yes, understanding of formal dress is greatly eroded in America.
Greetings as always,
truly another very insightful article as well as informative also timely.
I have been invite to a relatives wedding and have been considering wearing a tuxedo (Black in colour) that I own, first I want to know would it be appropriate to do so (it’s a fall wedding) and if so does any of the dress codes that apply to a “white tie event ” apply here?
And just to reemphasis I always gain so much helpful knowledge whenever I have the opportunity to read articles here at GG!
Best Regards,
Park Jacob Weatherby
Ask the host. It is their day, and they should be the center of attention, not you and your tuxedo.
Thanks so very much I apologize for my omission of the fact that the invitation specifically states formal attire…and this being my first such event after reading your article I was simply wondering if the same dress code would apply for a wedding.
Again thanks for your input and I shall indeed speak with my host on what they consider to be proper attire for their special occasion.
I wouldn’t disagree that dress code is a matter for your hosts and their view of what is appropriate should be your guide but, if the dress code is ‘formal attire’ then a tuxedo/dinner jacket or white tie might not be the right sort of formal clothing.
Both black tie and white tie dress codes are evening wear. For daytime formal clothing take a look at the morning coat and ‘stroller’ or black lounge dress codes. This site has a sub-site all about them which could be a good place to start: http://www.morningdressguide.com/
Here’s the question. Is it outlandish to wear a fedora with a tuxedo? In my religion we wear fedoras regularly with our formal attire, but in this case, I may need to make an exception.
You can wear a fedora with a the more relaxed tuxedo or dinner jacket but the slightly more formal homburg hat is generally considered more appropriate. In the past, however, everything from top hats to bowlers to soft felt alpine hats to straw boaters have been considered correct so a fedora is not without precedent.
Don’t wear your fedora with white tie and tails, however. Here, silk top hats are the order of the day. George Sanders did sometimes pair his evening tails with a trilby in the late 30s and early 40s but it never caught on and white tie dress codes have now completely ossified as so few people ever wear it.
It depends on who you ask I guess. In Europe a top hat and boater have never been appropriate with black tie ;).
…thank you, THANK YOU! Mr. Schneider!!
…as many were “ooo’ing” and “aahh’ing” on my Facebook newsfeed -and elsewhere whenever I saw a picture it looked either ridiculously clowning or showed MAJOR DON’TS…(sadly little that was done was featured or appreciated..smh…)
…given the overwhelming expressed appreciation of such poorly executed sartorial expression -and being sure what I seeing was terribly wrong- a feeling of being in the “Twilight Zone” pervaded…
Again, Thank You Mr. Schneider for affirming reality!
…smh…
Most of your suggestions and observations are top notch and perfectly true. Cumberbatch looks best IMO, but you insist on some outfits that the waistcoat is too long… which is wrong in some cases (even Cumberbatch shows a bit of waistcoat!) The waistcoat SHALL be seen and a bit longer than the tailcoat front, Flusser for example is wrong there. The true master of White Tie is located here in Vienna – at Knize… it is ok not to show waistcoat, but it is perfectly right and the more elegant variation to have the waistcoat extended a bit – Knize decorate their White Tie ensembles during the Ball Season with a waistcoat that is probably 2″ longer than the tailcoat front :)
And please don’t tell me I am wrong here. My knowledge does come directly from Viennese tailors and Knize customers… from times BEFORE the world wide interweb was the main information source ;)
Nice article anyway, a good read – best, Dominik
Hello Dominik,
Thanks for your comment. I love Vienna, and its white tie culture, and I spent a week there with my wife not long ago. I enjoyed many of the restaurants and stores, but Knize was certainly not one of them.
Our knowledge is not based on Flusser – but rather from people who lived during the period, and magazines from that time. I have numerous books and magazines from England, Italy, Germany, France, U.S… and also from Vienna. I scanned about 1000 pages during my last trip to Vienna from the archives. I even saw an old Viennese clothes archive. ‘Der Gut Angezogene Herr’ (The Well Dressed Gentleman) a Viennese magazine highlights, not to show any vest. Every picture, every drawing shows the vest covered up. The same is true for the magazine “Der Wiener Schneidermeister” (The Viennese Master Tailor). Like I pointed out, there was a short period between 1910-1920 where the vest peaked out at the bottom, but that was because you could hardly see the vest in the front. Again, this was a quick do and don’t not an ultimate guide, because that would require its own website.
That being said I find it a bit insulting that you imply we base our knowledge on information that is online because we actually do research and I built an archive in many hours, that no one else in the world possesses. It cost me countless hours and quite a bit of money to put together.
I sent you a few pictures of the viennese magazines by email and I look forward to the Viennese magazines and photos from the 1920s and 1930s that backup your claims ;). Or at least tell me citable sources… thank you
Hi Sven, of course I didn’t wan to insult anyone! But since there is the www, the number of clothing specialists radically increased, and most of them – you not included – have their knowledge from the web… I have been a bit fast when I wrote that.
My evidence… I didn’t study old magazines and I don’t refer to the 1930s or 1920s as I don’t see any reason to do so – year after year I can see the white ties at Knize’s Vienna store in the shopwindow – if you want I can take a pic next time. Here is a pic of an old ex-minister of finance of Austria – Hannes Androsch – who is an exclusive Knize customer, unfortunately it is not as expressive as I would wish (the person on the far left):
http://images02.kurier.at/47552935-46-53426488/620×340/47.552.940
Another source has been the outfitter I worked for about 15-10 years ago – we learned there how to sell White Tie ensembles the right way… And an old tailor that worked for Knize for a long time, I spoke to several times. All insisted that the waistcoat should peak out a bit. Don’t get me wrong, it isn’t wrong to cover the waistcoat. But is definitely is NOT wrong NOT to cover it and I only say it’s wrong to say it is! :) and from an astethical point of view: to show it is a tad more eleant. At least here we see it that way :)
I have been at Knize twice within the last 10 years, and every time the service and knowledge level of the staff was disappointing. The lady I spoke to last time, had rudimentary knowledge in formal morning wear, but not more… The evidence doesn’t have to be from the 20s or 30s.
how about 1880 – 1960, when white tie was worn more often than it is today? In this picture, it seems like it only peaks out because he is bending his upper body…
Tons of pictures with both variations – the second, much more exclusive White Tie event in Vienna:
http://www.wienerphilharmoniker.at/medien/fotogalerien
http://knize.at/de/der-frack
argument disproved – end of discussion.
Nope. It’s only the website. Come to the shop during ball season. You will be surprised.
All the black and white ones don’t show any waistcoats…
I have been there, during the fifth season as well. Never seen a waistcoat peekin’ under the front. And I think they would have taken the greatest care to ensure that their hallmark white tie style was also present on their homepage, their window to the world. But big surprise, since there is no such hallmark, they haven’t ensured a thing in this regard concerning their homepage pictures.
And if you think only the real thing am Graben is good enough for your arguments, I have a surprise for you:
Just help yourself and point me to the showing waistcoat.
Many thanks in advance, I’m really really curious where you’ll find it.
Instead of white tie, what about full regimentals or Scottish “Court Dress” ?
What ho, doctor! It seems to me that these people have no connection with the military. And even if they do, this occasion hardly seems appropriate for wearing evening dress uniforms. Otherwise, I would agree.
I regret that my many sharp intakes of breath has left me rather stunned. It would appear some people have little idea of proper dress code, which is a terrible pity.
However, there were several gentlemen who pass muster, and I give full marks to them. Sadly, as for the rest, please try harder next time!
I happen to agree with you 100 % . Personally I believe it goes back to how one was bred and if He or She were given proper instructions as to the appropriate attire for the proper occasion !! On the other hand, the younger generation do certainly try to make their own fashion statements in their attire….sadly. Maybe as they age, so does their wisdom.
CMG
The men look horrible. They look like they children playing “dress-up.”
They do not know how to dress because they do not wear formal clothes in their daily lives. They do not own the clothes and accessories. Often, they hastily assemble an evening’s dress clothes through a “stylist” who himself doesn’t have the experience or taste in dressing. Usually, the stylists are mere shills of a designer.
Often, the formal clothes are “free”, provided by a designer in exchange for promotion. The worst offender is Sarah Jessica Parker. Yes, Ms. Parker, it’s an Oscar de la Renta gown. Yes, Ms. Parker, you look beautiful and fabulous, absolutely fabulous. This insidious procedure has entered the mens side where celebrity men are often asked who made the evening clothes.
What is interesting is that my father in rented white tie in 1948 looked great. The real deal. That was because he lived in an era when people dressed, and the ways of proper dress were not strange and alien to regular people.
I say that all in all we live in a “low rent” era.
Mark E. Seitelman
http://www.seitleman.com. . .
Very Good article. Thank you so much.
That was certainly worth the read. Many thanks !! Always learn a lot in these news letters.
Great article as usual. The men dress badly, but really; it’s America; what did you expect?
Don’t take me wrong, I am usually a friend of the US; Americans are a lovely and friendly people; but their clothing culture…
Thank you, but I’m glad my forebears didn’t emigrate. :)
Sincerely,
Christian from Stockholm
Hello Christian,
I don’t think it has anything to do with America. Yes, on average they are more poorly dressed than other nations, but there are a number of people who are well dressed. Just think back to the Royal Wedding, and the white tie ensemble Daniel Westling wore, that was pretty bad as well…
I’ll be in Stockholm next week btw ;).
Hi Sven, I agree that it’s probably not about America as much as it is about people who are used to standing out with somewhat extravagant outfits who don’t know how to do that while respecting the formality of a white tie dresscode. From the pictures you displayed I would say those who managed to dress properly are the ones who stand out ;)
Can you tell us more about your views on Daniel Westlings white tie ensemble at the Royal wedding? (I am also Swedish) As I look back at a few pictures now the one thing I notice is his shirt, but other than that I would call it a well tailored ensemble :) I’m happy of course to hear what you as a professional see as “pretty bad”.
Thanks in advance, a first time reader
Naughty man.
Rules, Rules, Rules. It amazes me that there are so many rules for a man when he puts on clothes, No wonder men have lost interest in finery. To much finicky this and that. The very dress code we fuss about now was once disdained by the former dress code when it became the new fashion.
Men’s fashion is long overdue for a change. It’s been over one hundred years now since men’s fine fashion has seen any change, everything is outdated and old.
All this fuss is discouraging. I think everyone in the photos looked fine regardless of rules. In fact it appears to me that Johnny Depp and others were making a statement by, deliberately, breaking the rules to show their disdain for rules regarding mens fashion, the same is said of Jessica Parker who makes it a point for all to see the logo on her gown. I think it is time for men to wear what they feel best in and to be unique and allow their own personal preferences and creativity to shine. Look at all the women, none of them look the same as the other, the same individuality should be allowed to me. Men all look the same, no individuality whatsoever. No color, all black and white. I am bored of it. I spent all this money just to look like the next guy. It’s pretty, but also a gaping yawn.
I’m sorry Sven. I love your site, but the finicky rules and fuss that some people inflict are severely discouraging.
Brown only in Fall, Navy only in winter, grey only for business, peaked lapels notched lapels for this and only for that, Black only for funerals. Really it’s no wonder men are going about with their boxers and briefs showing. Men are up to their nostrils in rules and regulations. Just my opinion.
Well James, to me every man in the picture looks distinctly different, it all depends on where you are coming from. When you are a tennis spectator you see two people play, and one court is like another. If you are a pro player, you notice every little detail – the racquet, the strings, the light, the court, the balls… It’s the same with clothes. At the same time, this event already shows that everybody can wear what they want. And that’s fine, we can criticize them for it.
Hollywood does not know how to accurately dress even if they want to. You can see that in old movies – the cars, the plates and even the size of the apples is authentic 1960’s but the clothes are not. They just pay less attention to it.
Let me ask you this. Would it be ok to appear in a string tanga at this event if you feel like it?
You are right Sven
White tie, black tie..and so on are not costume party
regards
Caio
There aren’t many times when there are strict dress codes. White tie is one of them. Most guys will probably never wear it but, if you are going to an event where that is the dress code, shouldn’t you get it right?
The rest of the time you are free to dress as you choose and can bend or break whatever ‘rules’ or conventions you care to. Incidentally, I’ve never heard it suggested that brown is only appropriate in autumn or blue in winter or grey only for business, for that matter. If any such conventions exist I break them regularly but in doing so I’m not ignoring my host’s decision about dress code.
Well said Hal.
Hi Sven,
I agree with you 100%. A few questions:
1. Patterns like paisley in the material, is it exceptable?
2. Should the shirt always be a bat wing collar?
3. Scarves, should these always be a white silk with tassels or can you be a little flamboyant?
4. What is the name of the game, to show off your lady, be a peacock or make you look tall and slim?
I read the article but I am sure I didn’t find the answers to these questions, but I have been lazy at times and tend to skim read, so apologises in advance, or in arrears, whatever the case may be.
Love your work
Mickey G
Sorry I meant acceptable. Me spelling can be tierible.
Of course these people don’t know how to dress properly. Most of them are Hollywood types who have money but no class. They have no respect for tradition which dictates certain styles of dress. And they are narcissists to boot, so even if they care to wear the proper attire, they feel the need to include at least one item that screams “look at me”.
It is all part of their job to have people look at them, that is how they are valued. Sorry to see that they forgo class for ‘razzle-dazzle’ or what they thought was class. Surely they read their lines, they could get a stylist to advise them on looking right. A statement has to be presented right or it is just noise, and these characters are very noisy.
Gentlemen!
Splendid and interesting article. Allow me to contribute a few remarks from the Netherlands present day practice. First of all, white tie occasions have become quite rare here too. However, if they occur, the Netherlands men appear to be a bit better informed than the stars pictured with this article. In my club, white tie outfits are usually only disturbed by the circumstance that some members (incorrectly) insist on wearing a regimental or club colours bow tie, in stead of a white one.
The consensus in my country seems to be (and seems to have been since at least WWII) that it is absolutely acceptable if the waist coat is visible when slightly longer that the jacket front. Also, it is acceptable if the waist coat is slightly shorter, and thus less visible. However the preference seems to tend towards visibilty.
By the way: as far as I understand, the photographed population consists of actors, authors and artists. I would expect that specifically the first category (actors) should be routined in wearing unfamiliar clothes. In the Netherlands however, these three categories of people are quite famous (I generalise) for their unwillingness or inability to follow even the basic rules of clothing etiquette.
Lastly, a great compliment for Mr. Schneider’s double breasted waist coat and for the collar, that seems to be huge. Are they bespoke? And are they, perhaps, partly inspired by Mr. Bonneville and Mr. Stevens in “Downton Abbey”? They wear white tie ensembles with very interesting features, like rounder waist coats, slightly off-white bow ties and waist coats, and collars that stand up entirely, so without the triangular wings folded down. (It is difficult to see, but Mr. Ford in the pictures above seems to also wear an off-white waist coat and bow tie – am I correct?) Off course, the Downton Abbey costumes are supposed to represent the pre-WWII fashion, but since white tie so strongly connects with fashion history, it may be correct to bring back some of these historical details for variation purposes. Or is that risky, and should we avoid creating a historic masquerade?
I don’t know how to post a picture, but I should show you my double breasted waist coat and standing (attached!) collar. This sort of waist coat is similar to prince Daniel’s, and although out of the ordinary, it became accepted and popular thanks to our late prince Bernhard, especially with morning coat. The main problem with prince Daniel’s outfit is indeed the shirt, which also appears to be off white due to the absence of underwear.
With best wishes,
M.P. de Klerk, NL
Perhaps the cuffs for a white should be mentioned, starched cuffs should be single to allow traditional cufflinks to be used with the very stif cuff.
wHY NOT ADVISE ON BLACK TIE ALSO.
Again, this is not an extensive guide. We discussed sleeve lengths and cuffs in detail here.
who are you to judge VALENTINO?
sven who??
forget about it…
Excellent points. At far too many white tie events in the US these days, only one or two of the gents will have it completely right–more frequently none. For the correct look and relation to coat and waistcoat length, the trousers must be really quite deep–at or above the navel in most cases. One would think that when the invitation states “white tie and decorations,” the attendees would be better turned-out, but I have found this not to be the case. Sadly, the teenagers at debutante balls are generally better fit out in their rental suits.
I would take issue with the requirement that the suit be custom made in all instances–there are still quality houses and some for whom minimal alterations will produce an excellent fit. Full dress must certainly be tailored with extreme attention to detail and, in the US, the trousers will have to be custom made or altered, for a double braid off-the-rack here is Unobtanium.
Thanks ever so much. Alas, as with so many of your excellent videos and articles, those who need them most are least likely ever to see them.
Cheers!
It is so much easier for Scots. A doublet worn with a lace jabot covers white and black tie occasions as well as allowing a wide variety of styles and accessories.
these replies are getting creepy. I’m interested in style, tribal codes of dress, and formal sartorial rituals as much as the next guy but the vibe and language in the comments (“tramps”? really?) is so odd, so simultaneously condescending and anachronistic. History is important but fashion moves on for a reason and it does so by the thoughtful bending and breaking of codes, usually as a way broker inclusion. It’s important to contemplate the implications of adhering so strictly (and snootily in some cases) to codes and rules of dress that were developed during a time when anyone who wasn’t a obscenely wealthy white dude held a status somewhere between property and perpetual underclass.